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UFO UpDates is the leading Ufological Mailing List on the Internet. This blog is a snide swipe bitch fest at some of the characters and threads that come up on the List. Visitors here are encouraged to be indescribably rude and abusive about Updates posters. You can subscribe to Updates at ufoupdates@virtuallystrange.net and join in the fun.

Wednesday, November 01, 2006

A Tragedy of Sadness

This thread should really be titled Twat The Fucking Useless Gerbil #2 but that would be too harsh. What I am writing about is something that requires delicacy and gentleness because it is tinged with sadness.

The recent and desperately still ongoing exchanges between Eugene Frison and Don Ledger, spread across at least two different threads and possibly three – I lost interest and couldn’t keep up – have been quite remarkable. “Remarkable” implies outstanding in the sense of quality but the reality is that they have been utterly pathetic. Rarely have I seen a man destroy himself and make himself look so utterly foolish as Eugene Frison has done. Its been like watching an articulate but imature child shoot himself in both feet. Don has just sat back, prodded the fire occasionally, and then let Eugene do the rest. If Don was a cruel man, which I doubt he is, he will now be laughing his proverbial head off. More likley he will just have permitted himself a smile.

The content of the exchanges don’t even seem to matter anymore and I’m certainly not going to dig all the material out and parade it here. One snippet in particular though does go a long way to explain a lot.

From Eugene: “Don't worry, I'll be very brief.” 70 lines later, this self obsessed idiot is still at it.

And as the argument/debate begins to unravel, because anything Eugene is involved with eventually does, it is always the same accusations from him;

“It is you who have deliberately misinterpreted what I said.”

You have chosen to ignore the points I made about……….”

“How come you didn't respond to my questions concerning…………..”

“I, at no point, argued that…………….”

And so on.

The List needs a rest from Eugene for a while so that both he and we can forget a little.

13 Comments:

  • At 1:38 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    “It is you who have deliberately misinterpreted what I said.”

    “You have chosen to ignore the points I made about……….”

    “How come you didn't respond to my questions concerning…………..”

    “I, at no point, argued that…………….”


    Sounds like pretty standard list-fare to me - not only for UpChucks, but for Pee-1947, as well.

    The List needs a rest from Eugene for a while so that both he and we can forget a little.

    What "The List" needs is a mass-exodus (outward bound) of the credulous, the lunatics, and the fossils from the "Golden Age" of ufology, all of whom are incapable of "thinking outside the box." Problem is, that would functionally equate with "death by attrition."

     
  • At 11:53 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    The List is at an even lower level than most ufo and associated topics bulletin boards on the net.

    I LOL @ the below average trite that Hall, Katzen, Maccabee, Friedman, Ledger, Kimball and the others write about, ad naseum.

    A.I., Mothman not getting it's dues, Alien Prison Planet Earth, Italian UFO sightings.... I'm a self-admitted geek and I was writing the same or similar milquetoast stuff for book reports way back in 8th grade. But, as I grew up my interests in the subject became more intellectually sophisticated and discerning, unlike these UFO Updaters who are stuck in a very bad rut.

    This is a funny send up blog on that whole self-important bunch of jerks. LOL

     
  • At 2:29 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    You know, "Arthur", you could be a lot more effective if you weren't so damn cynical and harsh. Maybe we could be a bit more serious for a moment, also. Please try. For once, I tend to partially agree with you. Amazing, huh?

    I have been reading UFO Updates for about three years now, and it has been deteriorating for the last year or so, in the sense that the exchanges in some cases have become rather petulant and the debates over certain issues have more to do with the persons who disagree, personalities, veering on ad hominem arguments, than the facts and reasoning behind differences of opinion.

    If you search the archive of UFO Updates, you can see this has always been the case to some degree, but it seems more often lately this tendency has increased. Or at least that's my perception. A lot of the "heavies" in the field don't post as often or at all any more. I miss that. I wish people like Brad Sparks, Wendy Conners, Jan Aldrich, etc., had more to say there, but for whatever reason, they usually don't any longer.

    I think this is for three (or more) basic reasons: 1) the format, 2)Bruce Errol-Knapp's filtering process, and 3) the general decline and diffusion of public ufology in general.

    Other contributing factors include the fact that there hasn't been much significant, documented ufo activity for several years, most of the older, great ufo researchers from years past are retired, preoccupied with real life (work, family, more pragmatic interests), in ill health, dead, or have become disillusioned and lost interest, and, in turn, society's interests and concerns have shifted over time.

    Some of this has to do with demographic, economic, political, and cultural change over the last generation or so.

    I mean, look at the state of American politics, for Christ's sake. Bush is a lying fool, led my neo-fascists. We're losing two wars simultaneously, one of which should probably have never been started. The crazed North Korean's have the bomb, and it seems like we can't do anything about it. The USA owes the rest of the world at least $20 trillion, and we can hardly pay the interest. The environment continues to deteriorate, global warming and global dimming are accelerating, Russia's falling apart, etc., etc.

    We all know the story. The human race will be lucky to survive another 50 years at the rate we're going. Is it any wonder that the ufo question has been further and further sidelined? Most people have to work for a living, and it's getting harder and harder for the middle class to keep up a decent standard of living.

    We can't seem to give up or even reduce oil consumption, oil demand keeps increasing, particularly in China and India, and pollution just keeps increasing as a result.

    We may be in the end times for humanity, so who's got the real desire, ability, time, money, scientific background, etc. to pursue ufo research? Not many. And those who do work quietly, in small groups or individually, and pursue what slim data there is.

    An "Invisible College" still exists, but its' ranks are thinning out due to demographic and practical reasons. Mainstream science ignores the field of ufo phenomenology, there is no real funding, no university or career programs for real training, and so things have been mainly left to the amateurs.

    Some of them, like Barry Greenwood and Brad Sparks, are quite good, but they are the exceptions today. Generation NOW, as Paul Kimball would have it, is trying to do something, but is it real, thorough, genuinely hardcore research or is it more reporting? I think the latter. What little money there is to be made in serious research or writing books or making documentaries or holding conventions, etc. makes people beholden to having to put out product, which itself takes away from pure, scientific research.

    The sensationalistic stuff, like Streiber's work, sells, but it's crap, muddies the waters, and where is there a coherent, public, decently funded program or institution where one who is truly and sincerely interested in working in this field can go? I don't know of any in this country, and while there are some overseas groups with serious intent, they suffer from many of the same problems of funding, credibility, and structure.

    It's a sad state of affairs, and in some cases leads to deep cynicism and a kind of despair that anything progressive and scientifically sound, to build upon, will ever come about. Maybe that's what leads to blogs like this one. *Sigh*

    Maybe a new kind of blog, debating these issues from a serious point of view is needed. Let me know if someone starts one. This one usually just annoys me.

     
  • At 4:09 AM, Blogger Arthur said…

    Oh my god, we've been overun by The Sensibilities. OK, I'll join in, but only briefly.

    While Mickey's posting above strides out further than the previous two, fundamentally, it is all interconnected in as much as a healthy UpDates forum spreads its tentacles far and wide with a ripple down effect throughout the bulk of the rest of the subject.

    Focussing specifically on UpDates, I agree with absolutely everthing said but you aren't going to like my reply, which is the same to all of you; stop whinning and do something about it.

    Now OK, I do understand why you don't, or at least I think I do. I presume the reason is that you don't care for the intimidatory nature of the List and the "danger" of exposing yourself to harsh, virulent criticism. But you simply have to bite that bullet and be prepared to fail. It is as black and white as that. Christ, you get enough shtick here to make Updates seem like play time. Eventually you will get support, of that I have no doubt, for whatever POV/idea/theory you are proposing. And if you don't, then fine. Fuck the lot of them but don't be intimidated from expressing an opinion or thought.

    This blog is a deflected attempt at doing something, because obviously I too feel that not all is right on that List. I accept the fact that any claims on my part as to exactly what type of contribution this might be making are arguable but I would contend it might be amusing to check the cultural record in years to come in relation to Ufology. I won't go any further than that in terms of what else I may or may not do.

    Every point made by the rest of you in this thread is absolutely valid. But you have to act. You know this.

     
  • At 12:19 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    stop whinning and do something about it.

    There once was an Alaskan Sourdough Man by the name of Amos. One day Amos was having his breakfast at the local cafe, enjoying his eggs with just a pinch of Copenhagen - a tradition to which he attributed his renowned health and hardiness.

    Suddenly, a host of younger men burst through the front door of the cafe, shouting in chorus, "Amos, your cabin's burning, your cabin's burning!"

    Without looking up from his plate, Amos muttered, "Let the sonofabitch burn. I'm eatin' my breakfast."

    Sometimes, in the real world, it simply gets too late, and you get the feeling (after years of experience) that trying to "save" this or that is just not worth the effort, because the end result is probably going to be disaster, anyway.

    Amos gave up trapping. It was hard and unrewarding business, after all, and the cabin was cold and drafty - a poor subsitute for a real home. He moved in with daughter in Cincinatti, where he wrote a book about his life as one of the last Alaskan Sourdough Men, and then he spent his remaining golden years fishing, growing roses, and reading to his grandchildren.

     
  • At 1:27 PM, Blogger Arthur said…

    Well, OK then and welcome, though I still thinks its a shame. You've given up. Never mind, put your feet up, make yourself comfy. House rules are disrespect the other residents (AL) and bring something occasionally to the table (as you are). Lights out varies. Everyone though expected for supper on Sundays at 6:00pm sharp. Enjoy.

     
  • At 3:55 PM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    "Stop whining and do something about it."

    You know, Arthur, you're right.

    Dear Gopod, agreeing with you twice within the same thread is almost...scary!

    Thank you for temporarily being serious. I think I will start a blog (moderated, of course) that addresses the kind of issues raised here. It will take me a week or two to figure out exactly how I want to do it, but when I'm ready I'll let you know.

     
  • At 5:10 PM, Blogger The Odd Emperor said…

    "But you simply have to bite that bullet and be prepared to fail. It is as black and white as that. Christ, you get enough shtick here to make Updates seem like play time. Eventually you will get support, of that I have no doubt, for whatever POV/idea/theory you are proposing. And if you don't, then fine. Fuck the lot of them but don't be intimidated from expressing an opinion or thought."

    Sage advice methinks!

     
  • At 4:12 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    anonymichael's boring blatherings: "Maybe a new kind of blog, debating these issues from a serious point of view is needed. Let me know if someone starts one. This one usually just annoys me.
    2:29 AM

    I think I will start a blog (moderated, of course) that addresses the kind of issues raised here. It will take me a week or two to figure out exactly how I want to do it, but when I'm ready I'll let you know.

    3:55 PM "

    YAWN. Can't you make up your mind or shut the fuck up and go work on your new "moderated" blog? You're boring.

     
  • At 4:19 AM, Blogger The Odd Emperor said…

    I think I will start a blog (moderated, of course) that addresses the kind of issues raised here. It will take me a week or two to figure out exactly how I want to do it, but when I'm ready I'll let you know.

    If someone really wanted to do this, I would be happy to provide the space and the infrastructure (not on a free blogger account either.)

     
  • At 5:44 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    No, YOU're boring! Uh-uh, You'RE boring! I said it first! Nuh-UH! Did too! "YAWN. Can't you make up your mind or shut the fuck up and go work on your new "moderated" blog? You're boring."

    Oh! D'oh! Whoa is us! How overbearingly boring! Hey! I saw that toy first! Gimme it! No, it's mine! [Mom has to go back down the hall to the boys room..."Now I thought you two weren't going to fight any more? *sigh*] (oh, mother of god...)

    Uh, can a guy give an idea some thought and then proceed with a plan, or not? Still thinking it over. OK with you, anonymous? I knew there was a reason I used the word "moderated." BTW, you ought to adopt one of those shiny, new and flashy anonymous identifiers used to such great effect around here--otherwise how will we know which anonymoron _you_ are when you offer your inevitable rejoinder, eh?

    My suggestion would be "anonybore", but feel free to adopt your own "nom de anonyplume". Over to you, genius. Oh, gosh, and I promised myself to be less strident and immoderate. Oh, well!

    Heaven can wait...wait a sec--now I'm acting out like Arthur has! The infection is spreading...now _where_ did I put that foot powder?
    (rub, dub)

    Aaaaahhh! That's better. Back on track, what would other bloggers suggest as to a host (thanks, OE, but your offer not necessary) other than blogger.com or blogspot.com? They both have some weird flaws and quirks. I've heard some good things about TypePad, but they charge money for hosting. What's the "best", non-Google owned, free blog hosting site around, IYHO? Comparative refs?

    Sorry, Arthur--back on trickster track soon--just doing a little prospective complimentary business, ya know?

    (Vis recent spooky holiday:
    "I am the pumpkin! They are the eggmen! We are the walrus!) Ahem.

     
  • At 9:07 AM, Blogger Arthur said…

    Anonymichael,

    Now stop it. Children squabble but grown up boys simply slash their friends open with machetes. So do the right thing and settle this outside and take lots of kitchen wipes.

    I wish you well with your new enterprise Mikey and anything we can do to help etc. But without rushing, make decisons quickly, like which blog format to take and so on. I too would question the wisdom of being moderated. I realize you would want to keep trash like me out, and I have no complaints about that, but moderation is just such a pain in the ass and puts people off from contributing in the first place. Far better to delete if you're not happy.

    Just a couple of afterthoughts from yesterday. You gave a good analysis of the way Ufology has gone over the last few years. Also, its all very well me urging you to commit but what if you haven't got much of anything to say but just don't like the standard of postings on UpDates or whatever site you're on? I have no answer to that one.

    If it helps when you launch, I would be happy to go straight into a flaming war with you just to generate interest and breathless excitement. I'm sure some of us would also be quite happy to come round and beat you up as well if you felt that would help. Just ask.

    Can we come and play at your new place if we're good?

     
  • At 10:10 AM, Anonymous Anonymous said…

    Yeesh! I'm having second thoughts already...but I am getting excited by the prospects of another slashfest. Tell ya what--you bring your machete, and I'll bring my AK-47. Maybe a little C-4 plastique, the odd, assorted North Korean "big pop", etc.

     

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